Emma Donovan
Produced by Chelsea Wilson.
Recorded live at The Soundbox, Arts Centre Melbourne for Always Live Festival, November 2023.
Thanks to the Soundbox team for capturing this talk.
TRANSCRIPT:
Chelsea Wilson: Good morning, welcome, welcome to the control podcast, where we speak to incredibly inspiring game changes and change makers in the music industry. So great to be here with you this morning at the soundbox as part of always live festival. My name's Chelsea Wilson, your host. I'd like to acknowledge we are broadcasting this morning on the lands of the Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung and Boonwurrung people of the Kulin Nations, and pay my deepest respects to all First Nations Elders, past and present, and acknowledge sovereignty has never ceded.
I am thrilled this morning to be chatting to Yamatji and Gumbaynggirr woman, one of Australia's most revered vocalists and songwriters. Emma Donovan. Growing up in a musical family, Emma first appeared on the stage with her renowned family band, the Donovan’s. She's since collaborated with [00:01:00] artists such as Paul Kelly, the Black Arm Band, the Teskey Brothers, Paul Grabowski, Spinifex Gum, and the late Uncle Archie Roach and Aunty Ruby Hunter joining forces with Melbourne rhythm combo, The Putbacks.
Emma has recorded multiple award-winning soul influenced albums. Recently, she was the executive producer for the award winning documentary, Wash My Soul in the Rivers Flow and appeared on PlaySchool, but in 2024, she's set to release her debut solo album. Emma, welcome to The Control Podcast.
Emma Donovan: Oh, Chelsea, thank you so much for having me here. I really appreciate it. looking forward to our little Melbourne, um, yarn here as we look at, um, you know, at the front of the art centre. And I've been walking past, you know, the sound box all week. And so it's nice to be in here. It's so great.
Chelsea Wilson: And it's perfect Melbourne drizzly weather. So it's right on.
I'm so excited to chat to you about your career in music and your [00:02:00] new record, but would love to go back to the very beginning and talk about the Donovan family. So you started singing as a kid, right, age six or seven, and there was always music in the house. I remember seeing your show, The Rugged Cross, with Paul Grabowsky at the recital centre a little while ago now, and in between songs you wove in these incredible stories of cassettes being traded around the family, and it seemed like there was always music in the house. What are some of those earliest memories of music?
Emma Donovan: Yeah, well, I, you know, anybody that knows me and knows my family, um, would know how proud I am, that I am the granddaughter, um, you know, uh, of Micko and Eileen, they, that's what they, everybody knew them as, Micko and Eileen, and they were my mum's parents, and, um, it was pretty ironic that, like, so Pop grew up, um, in Barrowville Mission, which is northern New South Wales, Um, little mission at the back of [00:03:00] Maxville.
Um, and he met my grandmother who come from a place called Burnt Bridge Mission, which was over in Kempsey, um, you know, home of Slim Dusty, all of that, you know, era, um, of country music, you know, getting thrown around and played. Um, and they both sung Chelsea like, I could not believe their voices, even to this day.
I love listening to their old cassettes because, um, you know, they had this real old style, um, way of, you know, doing harmonies. I was, um, telling someone the other day, um, you know, they still did the key change, you know, in the song. They, they, you know, because their voices were so different, the way they'd harmonize and all that.
And that, that's all the stuff I carry with me. You know, today, um, when I think about my family and my upbringing is that, you know, there was Nan and Pop and they just, yeah, they just, you know, it was just never, never a quiet moment. Um, you know, singing and being brought up in that house with them, laying on the bed next to Nan, you know, learning harmonies and there was always an uncle with a guitar, [00:04:00] you know, too.
Chelsea Wilson: So you were raised on the New South Wales coast. And there was a lot of country music played in the house and you went to Tamworth to sing at talent showcases. Can you tell us about those?
Emma Donovan: Um, I'm getting a little bit excited because, um, I'm going to return to Tamworth, uh, next year. Um, there's a tour that I'm a part of, um, um, there's Charlie Crockett who's coming back to town.
Um, you know, the Texan cowboy. Um, he, he's gonna, he's gonna do a, um A tour that starts, um, pretty much on the 27th of Jan. Um, and we, we start back in Tamworth. But for me, you know, it's like, Oh, my mum used to take me up there when she discovered that I could sing. Um, She'd take me up to Tamworth Country Music Festival, and she'd enter me, Chelsea, and all, I'd do all these busking comps, you know, on the street, um, down Tamworth, and, and I wouldn't just do them as [00:05:00] myself, like, I'd have all my family, like, all the cousins that sang, you know, Nan and Pop would be there, all the uncles.
And we'd, you know, they'd, you know, once our family came, like the Donovan family, there'd be all these other families, you know, there'd be the Knox family, there'd be the Williams family, and these were all different Aboriginal families that were similar to us, you know, they knew country, they had that lineage as well in their own communities and, you know, in their own families, you know, with it all being passed down.
So um, yeah. That's just a little bit about Tamworth, but you know, the big thing that I like to share about Tamworth for me was um, mum bless her, she used to, um, she used to, uh, you know, make all my, my little country outfits. Yeah. And I'm going to share this, you know, when, um, we released the album. You'll probably see, you know, a little picture of me in my little sequenced, um, outfit.
The funny thing is, is that mum grew me up singing all the old Temi Wynette songs. Like, I'm a huge Dolly Parton fan, huge Loretta Lynn fan, [00:06:00] and these were like proper boss women of country. music, you know, and their songwriting. I think, you know, sometimes I think, okay, I've got a lot of guts, you know, telling some stories when I hear only Ruby Hunter.
But, I know a lot of my influences come from these women too, you know, like Loretta Lynn and Temi. And the thing was, is Mum used to call me a black Temi. She's like, I want you to be my little black Temi, Wynette. laughs
Chelsea Wilson: I love that, and you know, we're right here near the Australian Music Vault, and I think some of those outfits need to go in there.
Emma Donovan: Oh, come on, yeah. They really do. I gotta find them, check that I haven't given them to any of me other little nieces or anything, but, oh.
Chelsea Wilson: You know, they've got Kylie Minogue's outfits in there. And the last time they put an exhibition on, and they put on, put up some of Kylie's really early costumes, they were all made by her mum too.
Emma Donovan: wow.
Chelsea Wilson: So just like Kylie, just like Kylie. So was there a specific moment where you thought I'm going to make music and singing my [00:07:00] career, or was it just something you always did?
Emma Donovan: I feel like, um, with the whole 10 word story and mum taking me up there. I was still a little shy girl then too, you know, so, um, she'd, you know, take a bit of convincing and then she'd, you know, go to the effort of doing all these outfits and I'd get there and I'd sing and then as, as soon as I'd finished singing, I'd run away and, you know, I'd want to take my little outfit off and, you know, um.
You know, I'd be a bit shy, you know, and I'd be a bit shame and um, but music always made me feel like, you know, there was something there that made me confident and made me strong and just, you know, fell in love, you know, when I when I'd be here surrounded in music. So yeah, probably a little bit. like, shorter after that time.
Um, you know, I'd get back to, um, we were living around Sydney and Western Sydney areas. Um, there was a lot going on in the community. I'd get asked to do, um, a few of my first gigs, like some of the NAIDOC gatherings, some of the, you know, things at the [00:08:00] local schools and, and stuff around Western Sydney. But I think the thing for me was when I wanted to.
Um, you know, choose, and I, I remember seeing Christine Anu, I remember seeing her, and um, it would have been like a survival day gig, um, you know, on the 27th, 26th of Jan when all the mob would go out to La Perouse, so now they kind of had the Yabin event, which happens in Sydney, but back in, you know, the day, there would be these, um, similar events and it would.
You know, be all the mob coming out to, um, La Perouse in, um, Yarra Bay. And I remember this one time I was out there and, you know, us mob would be all swimming on the beach and you'd go up and listen to the concerts in the day and you'd see people like Uncle Archie, Aunty Ruby and, you know, these big bills and you'd see, I'd see Christine Anu.
And that was just like, kind of at the same time that I, you know, was coming back from Tamworth and that, and I'd see Christine, I'd go, Oh, I just want to, I would love to do that. In my mind, I never thought it would happen, [00:09:00] but I looked at her and would think, yeah, that, that would be pretty cool. Singing on stage like that.
Yeah.
Chelsea: She's a powerhouse, Christine Anu.
Emma: She still is, I seen her last night, you know, perform at the Mushroom, birthday event. Yeah, there she is. She's still here, you know, she's still amazing and that voice I mean, you know talking about all the trills and all the all these licks, you know I mean you were just yarning before and I'd have hers down pat.
Chelsea Wilson: We were talking about Christina Aguilera being in town and trying to emulate some of those melismas and those instincts saying runs that she does.
So you moved to Sydney and studied at the Eora College for Performing Arts and you were a founding member of the vocal group, the Stiff Gins, who I think I saw you perform with them at Woodford Folk Festival, maybe in 2002 or something, you know.
Emma: Yeah, nice one. It was incredible.
Chelsea: Can you tell us, what do you think you learned from [00:10:00] your fellow band members, Nardi Simpson and Kalina Briggs?
Emma Donovan: Oh, just, um, that was the first time I had a little go at it. You know, writing tunes and, um, writing music is always so personal. Again, I was so shy of it. And, um, it's such a personal thing for me to, you know, share. Um, but I had these other two women, you know, that wanted to do the same. And we pretty much just got stuck together.
Cause you know, I wasn't a good student to be honest. You know, I was pretty daggy and I was a bit of a rat bag. I still just left school and I didn't know what I did. Now, when I look at it, I think, geez, Emma, you could have been a bit more. Anyway, um, but you know, we'd get these assignments and we'd just do them together.
And half of them, you know, if they were presenting a song or writing something, um, yeah, they kind of had my back and we did it as a group, you know. And then that's how the band kind of formed. And it was just a vocal, it was just a vocal group. It was, um, Nardi introduced me to Tiddas music. You know, I remember her just sharing Tiddas and [00:11:00] she was, you know, a big Tiddas fan and I didn't know Tiddas.
Um Um, at that time, yeah, it would have been really fixed on Christine, you know. So we would just kind of form this little, you know, this little girl, girl band, really. And because we'd, in the, in the, um, school, there would always be, you know, a bunch of the students there and there'd be no girls hanging out and, you know, we'd just stick together and write songs pretty much, yeah.
And the word stiff gins, you know, that was a derogatory term, you know, the word gin, you know, for an Aboriginal woman. So we had all these positive things about it and how we caught a little bit of slack with the um, with some of the Aboriginal women, including my grandmother, actually, she was so angry that I was in a band called Stiff Gins and mum was still devastated that I wasn't a black little Timmy Wynnette, you know, in the country, doing the country thing.
We were kind of doing like a vocal folk kind of thing. Um, so there was all of them, um, experiences that I was having, you know, but it was my first time that I [00:12:00] wrote with women. And, um, yeah, I loved it. Um, yeah, it was awesome too to see that Nadia and Kalina still keeping the band name.
Chelsea Wilson: And reappropriating that word to use it in a positive way and, you know, it's kind of like an early political statement. So you've since gone on to collaborate with some incredible artists such as Paul Kelly, Paul Grabowsky. Can you tell us what you think makes a great collaboration?
Emma Donovan: Yeah, well, the first big collaborative. outfit after the stiff jeans where I kind of landed, you know, kind of singing alongside some of these, you know, these names that you mentioned, Chelsea was, um, being in the Black Arm band.
And, um, I just, yeah, to me it was like, oh, you know, felt a little bit out of place, felt young and like, oh, what do I got to be here? But, um, started to understand, um, You know, that place and them roles. And I think the biggest thing for me was just learning [00:13:00] some of the history, you know, of our musical history, black musical history.
Um, I knew songs like from little things, big things grow, but I didn't know the proper history till I started learning the lyrics. And so that, that were them spaces for me were really important. Um, So yeah, like, as a collaboration, I guess, for me to learn, um, you know, that there was more people like myself, there was more people like Uncle Archie, there was more people like, you know, Kev Carmody, um, in them places that became a huge collaboration.
I'm just forever thankful and grateful. Even just being out the front of this Arts Centre, some of the big gigs that we did were in Hamer Hall for Dirt Song and, and Murrinduck, you know. Part of my history there that, you know, I've come and, um, been a part of them collaborations. Yeah. And I think now, even when I sit here today and look back, I feel a little bit old, but I feel like, um, there's some really beautiful relationships that have continued from them.
[00:14:00] Like Paul Grabowsky, um, like The Putbacks where I kind of just, you know, kept the friendships and kept the, kept them, you know, solid people from them collaborations in my life.
Chelsea Wilson: What a kind of training ground or you know to be in the black armband and be surrounded by that kind of extraordinary talent.
Emma Donovan: Yeah, there were so many.
I think the overwhelming thing for me when I first, you know stepped on the Black Armband collaboration was they half of them were my heroes, you know, I remember my dad and I Our big thing was in Redfern, he'd have his little Corolla and I'd go into the local radio station, like Quarry Radio, and he'd send me and my brother up to go and request a song and we'd request something like Coloured Stone or Bart, you know, No Fixed Address, Bart Willoughby.
And we'd run back down the car and we'd just wait to hear our names and wait to hear the song, you know. [00:15:00] That was like the old. School day of like, you know, requesting a song on community radio and then, you know, a few years down the track, here I am at a rehearsal on stage with Bart Willoughby doing, you know, uh, uh, a show with Uncle Bart and I'm texting dad, dad, Uncle Bart Willoughby is here, you know, and I'm doing BVs for a song like we have survived.
Yeah. So I feel pretty lucky. Um, but at the same time, um, Yeah. Yeah. Always grateful, you know, Chelsea, that, um, yeah, I was, I was, I found myself there somehow. Yeah.
Chelsea Wilson: And now you're in turn mentoring younger artists, right? So you have done some work with Kian, released a track together. What's that been like?
Emma Donovan: It is feel, does feel like, and you know, I do talk about, um, like yesterday we did the NGV, always live, you know, and myself, we. Um, they [00:16:00] gave me that opportunity last year to, um, you know, help, um, you know, present and, um, put together some, you know, of the artists and I do feel like that in a role and some kind of sense that, um, you know, there's them platforms and there's them spaces where, um, you know, to help curate, um, you know, um, a line up.
And include someone like Kian. And, um, that's all come out of these relationships. I use the word cradling after being in Black Arm Band because I learned so much from people like Aunty Ruby, Aunty Lou Bennett, you know, who was a big, big, um, um, you know, mentor for me. And yeah, I do. I do want to be there. I think the other thing too is, you know, them terms get thrown around then, you know.
These artists, they're like, auntie this, auntie that. You know, like the first time, um, there was young, one young Torres Strait Island guitarist, his name's Chris Temoy. [00:17:00] And he kept saying, auntie, auntie, and you know, to me, and his manager pulled him up and he's like, here, not auntie, that's sissy. Like, you know, she didn't want to offend me, you know, and, and, and.
You know, she was trying to tell Chris, you know, there, she's young, you know, she's call her sissy, like that there. And I said to Nicole, you know, his manager, I said, it's all right, he under, you know, he's being respectful. He want, he wants to call me auntie out of respect. And I know that, I know there's that, um, because that's how I would be around someone like Uncle Arch or, you know, my family, but I want to be respectful and call them that.
So yeah, I feel like a lot of that's happened. You know, there's them relationships now where I can, yeah, like, you know, be, be a part of these, um, you know, this mentoring that's, that is happening and, you know, be a part of, just recently they had, um, Uncle Archie Roach's, um, the foundation had [00:18:00] done the Singing Up Our Futures, you know, mentorship where you, You know, collaborate and work with a younger artist and yeah, me and Kian, we wrote them tunes, you know, some tunes and that together, I think their relationships there, they have to keep happening. think they, they will.
Chelsea Wilson: Yeah. I think it's so important that we embrace and support one another in music regardless of age, you know, and it doesn't, they don't necessarily. need to be younger, it's about what stories or knowledge or experience do we have we can pass on to each other because the music and arts industries can be really tough. So we've got to look after each other, right?
Emma Donovan: And I think even outside like our cultural, you know, outside the Aboriginal community, there's a lot of that that happens, you know, um, with older artists. Like even when I first came to Melbourne, you know, seeing someone like Kylie Auldist and the way she kind of mothers and cradles.
You know, some of the young age takes on that kind of role, you know, and it's there. I think it's there as, um, you know, [00:19:00] amongst our women. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's a natural role and thing that we do, you know.
Chelsea Wilson: You met Mick Meagher, the bassist and songwriter, through the Black Arm, through the Black Arm Band, and you started collaborating with the band, The Putbacks, and together you've released multiple award winning records. How do you approach those kind of co-writing? Sessions. Do you write your lyrics first and your melody? What's the process like there?
Emma Donovan: I guess I'm always trying to push myself, not even push myself, it's just a natural thing that I always write. Like I'll go home tonight and write, you know, and I'll always, it's kind of like, when I was younger I had a diary, you know, and I would always just write in my diary, write to myself.
And, um, that's just something that I kind of always I think if there's a more formal setting of, you know, people coming together, I try and be prepared. And, you know, um, when I first met The Putbacks, I used to have all this, you know, [00:20:00] I'd have, you know, jams and they'd do this. We'd, we'd share stuff, but as well as um, you know, they'd give me all these folders of all their old jams and things, and they'd be like, Ems, you know, work, you know, have a listen to this, you know, tell us what you're feeling, you know, and we'll work on, you know, later on when we go and have a rehearsal or a jam or.
We'll work on that, like, particular tune. And I think the thing I started understanding was just be prepared, you know, be prepared always in them kind of settings. And, um, them, them, you know, they had music for days. They always had. Yeah, but it was cool because then as we got to know each other, um, yeah, there's no, you know, formal way of writing tunes, I guess.
Um, it kind of, you know, worked both ways, like, then I'd throw away, throw around an idea first, and I was getting more confident at that, um, you know, understanding myself that, you know, I don't musically have, like when we spoke about this before, you and I, we don't have, um, [00:21:00] I'm not confident to sit here and play the guitar or piano or anything.
I have my voice, um. I think the thing for me to understand was that that was enough, you know, and I can, that's plenty. That's plenty. That's all I have. And that's what I can collaborate with. Um, and it works. Yeah. And it's pretty, it's pretty cool, which, you know, leads me to. You know, um, other things, you know, like now, like outside the putbacks, you know, who, who, who am I?
Who is Emma? How do, how do I write, you know, how do I do a solo album? That's like big things for me.
Chelsea Wilson: That leads me to my next question. So next year, we're going to hear your debut solo album. Yeah. And I feel so lucky. I've had a preview, listen to it and it's really incredible. And I can hear. So many of those influences. I can hear the country influence. I can hear the roots influence. I can hear gospel influence. There's some [00:22:00] wonderful guest appearances that are beautiful and not overpowering and it feels like your friends have come to join you in the recording studio. It feels very natural. It doesn't feel like a forced thing.
Emma Donovan: That means a lot, a lot coming from you, Chelsea. Thanks. Like I, it's so nervous. It's so, um, Yeah, like it's, I'm still listening to the tracks trying to like, Oh my gosh, what should we release as a single? Or what should we put out second? And still listening to them.
Chelsea Wilson: There's a lot of guitar on this record, like a lot of really strong riffs. And as I was listening to it, I can just imagine it live in so many different settings at outdoor festivals, in concert halls, people rocking out to it. Lyrically. Is this a more political album for you? There's some lyrics about wanting to see change.
Emma Donovan: I think leading up to the referendum this year, there was a lot of times when I, [00:23:00] you know, was inspired. Um, you know, my first thing about the referendum was I, you know, the, the, just unknowing about, you know, what, how I felt. You know, that whole, I don't want to get too much into it, um, but yeah, that whole campaign, there was a lot of division from all sides, you know, and so that was pretty hard for me, but, um, you know, from my gut and from what I felt, um, you know, I always want to see change.
I always want to be a part of. you know, making history and, and also this relationship that I have, um, here, you know, in Australia, not just with my indigenous background and communities, but for everyone, you know, when I write music, I wanna, I wanna write for my mob, but I wanna, I wanna write for anyone, you know, I don't, I don't, you know, when I play music, I wanna play with my mob, but I wanna play with, you know, people that are amazing, you know, and, and, and good at what they do, no matter what color, you know, that's kind of my thing.
And so, um, yeah, I guess, you know, with this album and [00:24:00] the collaborations, it's just been holding on to someone like Mick, you know, who knows me for such a long time in all these collaborative outfits that we've, you know. Um, being a part of and that we've shared over a long time, um, that was easy for me because, um, I was working out who I was by myself.
And the other thing too is, you know, I'm over, you know, 42 now, Chelsea, and, um, you know, to have the opportunity, you know, through Cooking Vinyl, my label, to have a, um, a chance at, you know, doing a solo, like just being offered to, um, you know, do a solo album is a huge thing for me. You know, coming out of The Putbacks.
I've been in that outfit for nearly eight years. Um, just that, you know, someone believed in me. That they, you know, wanted to hear a solo thing from me, you know, cause I feature on a few little things here and there, but The Putback's always been my, my, you know, my, my type band. So I was like, okay, there's this opportunity.
What the [00:25:00] hell am I going to do, you know? And so I had to, you know, it's nice for you to hear the album. and hear what you think about it because, um, it's a, it's a vulnerable time for me. Um, but at the same time I had to go back and, you know, work out, yeah, you know, what are the chords? What are, what are some of the chords or what are, what are some of the melodies that, that I'm familiar with and that I know that I can, that are, that are honest to me.
You know, that are true for me. And a lot of it spoke, you know, um, to country music and, and spoke to like, you know, what we talked about at the start of this, this yarn. Um, you know, sitting on the bed singing with Nan and Pop, you know, the simple chords, the, the fun melodies, you know, the, you know, um, you know, hearing their voices and melodies and that's, yeah.
Sometimes when you're in a band like The Putbacks or, you know, in a funk soul outfit like that, you shy away from them things or you, um, You don't think they're cool or you don't think, you know, you think that you're quite [00:26:00] daggy. But, um, yeah, I want to be confident at being the daggy Emma with, you know, them three chords that I grew up doing and singing.
Chelsea Wilson: it's you, it's being honest and the lyrics and the vocal is the priority.
Emma Donovan: I think it's a start too. You know, and I think it's, I'm just scratching that little surface. Hopefully now, um, we've done this first album. Yeah, we'll, um, I can continue, um, you know, understanding more of myself. Like the more, it's kind of like in lockdown, you know, when I was, um, A lot of people were home and they, they, you know, weren't with their bands or they weren't rehearsing or they weren't doing live gigs.
I was stuck at home with the uke and I was playing to myself and I was just having a go at what I could do on my own and I couldn't bring the bass player or the guitarist over from the putback so, so a lot of the songs kind of came from even Back then, you know, when I was just having a go at doing things by myself.[00:27:00]
Chelsea Wilson: So when do you think we'll hear the album? When's it coming out sometime next year? And what's it called?
Emma Donovan: March. Um, so the album's called Till My Song Is Done. And yeah, there's a few, you know, statements or messages there about myself in the little old, little old industry and how I feel about, you know, continuing to sing up, um, no matter what comes, you know, what comes up, um, how, how we continue to be creative and continue doing what we do.
Um, yeah, it'll be, it'll be, um, a good time. Um, like I said, I'm going to tour a bit. Um. in January, February with Charlie Crockett and, you know, hopefully get to know, feel like I'm kind of starting again from the bottom, you know, just, just working my way up and trying to, trying to, um, yeah, start that relationship again with the country music audience.
Chelsea Wilson: Well, they're going to embrace you with open arms and be very excited about the record.
Emma: Let's hope.
Chelsea: A lot of women leave the music industry when they become [00:28:00] mothers. As a mother and a touring artist, how have you gone juggling that balance? And what do you think needs to change in the music industry to make it a more supportive environment, so we keep musician mamas in the scene.
Emma Donovan: Oh, yeah. Musician mamas are really owning it, aren't they? I mean, hello, look at Fanny Lumsden. I just follow that woman. I just love her. I love all her posts about, you know. One minute she's on stage and her partner's on stage and they play and then their kids are backstage and, you know, she's, you know, just recently, let's just, you know, congratulate her because she's just won that amazing Aria.
Chelsea Wilson: Yes, which Dolly Parton did the virtual announcement of the country album winner.
Emma Donovan: Oh, I missed that bit. Yeah. Um, well, see, um, I've looked up to people like her and even Casey Chambers, you know, and because, um, I see that they're strong women. I've noticed. I think, you know, like when I see someone like Fanny, I go, okay, I can do [00:29:00] this.
Okay. I'm a mum. I can do this. It is so hard to go, okay, stop being so apologetic about being a mum in the industry. And that's what I, I guess, um, I'm just over or sick of, you know, like, I don't want to put. Keep putting that in the hard basket for anything, you know, like when we, we're touring or being programmed or at a festival, backstage, you know, in these spaces with our children.
Um, yeah, it's. Cause it is, it's a lot to juggle. Logistically, you know, okay, you can, you can get out there on the road with a little bub. Um, after you have the first one, it's like, you know, the second one comes, it's like, okay, we've got a lot of things to work. We've got a lot of things. Uh, we got, we need a lot of support here, you know, and I've recently just returned, um, to Western Australia to be with my parents cause I never had my parents, um, close to me.
Um, and you know, I feel like in the last probably seven, yeah, seven years even, I've just been [00:30:00] juggling my little ones, you know, in this, in this industry. Um, you asked me if, you know, there's things that I, that, you know, we would love to see change and I think it's just that acceptance and, you know, um, in the spaces of like, you know, when we were at Green Rooms, just making that extra bit of nice space and to not.
You know, make mums feel, um, like, you know, it's not, not their space and not their children's space. I think I'd like to see a lot of that stuff change because they're challengers and they're, um, you know, they're hard, um, conversations and times. Yeah.
Chelsea Wilson: You were recently the executive producer for the award winning documentary Wash My Soul in the River's Flow about Uncle Archie Roach and Auntie Ruby Hunter.
How incredible is that? I heard you say that you wanted to ensure that the story was. It was told right, and that it was done respectfully, but you haven't had a history in filmmaking, right? Not at all. So what was this [00:31:00] experience like for you?
Emma Donovan: Chelsea, when someone said to me, do you want to be an executive producer? I'm like, what would I do? Why would I do that? I know nothing about that. And then I was like convinced, you know, by, um, the art, you know, the director, she's like, come on, Emma, you can do this. I said, no, I don't, I've never, you know, produced anything like that. You know, our movie in my life. Um, I think the thing that I needed to understand in that role was, um, you know, Uncle Archie's, uh, perspective and his, you know, him allowing me to help.
Make some decisions, you know, and him to, you know, that I could share that and that he trusted me You know him and the family Him and his management, you know, they trusted me with with um, with with that role and And I think as I understood that more, it became easier in that role to understand. Um, yeah, I, I made some cool, you know, a [00:32:00] lot of the edits were there and it was me kind of going, Oh, I think we need to stop at that.
Um, we don't need to hear the rest of that line, you know, and I started getting a little bit more, you know, uh, confident, um, and proud too, of some of the decisions that we'd, we'd make. you know, um, of things that, you know, lines that needed to be there or images that needed to be seen or reworked or, you know, was there other options?
Yeah. But yeah, first time thing for everything is in there.
Chelsea: I love that you did it. Do you think you'll do more films?
Emma: If, if I get asked, of course. Yeah.
Chelsea Wilson: Call Emma Donovan to produce your next doco.
Emma Donovan: But it was, it was actually, it was absolute honor. Yeah. I couldn't think of any other role and, you know, like what way to, you know, stand there and, um, And pay homage.
Chelsea Wilson: Yep. Play homage to um And say thank you for the music. Yep. You know, in such a beautifully poetic way. Well, congratulations. That's incredible.
Emma: Thank you so much, Chelsea.
Chelsea: [00:33:00] another really exciting thing you did was appear on PlaySchool.
Emma Donovan: Oh, yeah. around the, the royalty of, Oh, you should have seen me like, you know, cause on, on some of the, um, yeah.
So when they had some of the rehearsals, you know, like you'd be, you'd go out there and you'd rehearse, you know, the parts and you do the lines and you'd have, you know, a little Ted there and you'd have all the, and the way some of the people from, you know, From play school. We'll just leave. I was just like picking them back.
I was like royalty. It's Humpty Dumpty. Be careful people. This is Jemima. And then they're like, no, no, that's all right. That's the, that's the second set. You know, like on the day you're going to have the real thing. I'm like, oh geez. Okay. Shaken here. Um, it was, it was a really cool experience, you know, what a, and, and we did the reconciliation, um, episode.
Um, you know, I was there, uh, reading. The book about the referendum and we sung from little things, big things grow. Um, yeah, absolute ball. Highlight of [00:34:00] me, uh, career, you know, to be on the, on the set. I had to go in and just look at it on the, on the first day of rehearsal. I'm like, can I just have a look at it, please?
Chelsea Wilson: Just soak it in.
Emma Donovan: Just soak it in. Just take it all in. Cause you know, it's such a big thing. You see all that when you're, when I'm, you know, a little girl.
Chelsea Wilson: And just amazing for your kids as well to see you on those ABCC kids ads that pop up.
Emma Donovan: Oh. When they like, I think, you know, we are tuned into ABC kids and I remember just the kids, the way they were yelling out. I thought I was pretty cool, mom, that we, you know, that my daughter's mom, aunt, you know, every time they'd see the ad. So yeah. Beautiful experience. Yep. Absolutely. Part of, part of the PlaySchool fam. Yep.
Chelsea Wilson: Yeah. Love it. Love it. You've got a few shows coming up on the 3rd of December. You'll be at the Brunswick Ballroom doing a solo show, maybe previewing some of your new songs.
Yep. Definitely. Oh, awesome. Okay. So head to that. Yeah. Thanks. 1st of December, Blacktivism [00:35:00] at Hamer Hall, the 9th of December, you're appearing with the MSO doing some George Michael tunes.
Emma Donovan: So that is an exciting one. I'm sitting here with freedom lyrics in my head. Really? Jokes. No, all week I've been like, yeah, learning new stuff.
I know it's funny. I thought I, I'm like, yeah, I'll sing some George Michael tunes. Um, and I'm like, okay, I know some of these tunes and there's some songs I didn't know, you know, that they've suggested for me to learn and, oh, it's unreal. Like, you know, and I've heard, I've just recently uh, watched the doco, the Wham doco.
Chelsea Wilson: I watched that too. It was like, it was a really fun watch.
Emma Donovan: Perfect timing, you know, for me.
Chelsea Wilson: And the hair and the short shorts. Loving all the 80s fashion.
Emma Donovan: Yes. Yeah. There's going to be some beautiful, you know, people involved in that geek. Um, obviously the MSO, but you know, um, there's Carmen Smith who I'm a big, you know, big fan of Jade McCrae.Let's finish out the year and sing some George Michael tunes. I'll be ready for some fast love. And I think at one point I'm going to do a, um, you know, change my, you know, I'll go from, I'll go from, um, George Michael to Aretha Franklin and I might do that duet, you know, knew you were waiting.
Chelsea Wilson: That would be fantastic. That would be so good. Emma, thank you so much for joining us on the control podcast. It's been so nice to see
Emma Donovan: you. Thank you for having us. And, um, thank you always for this, um, time to share, um, my story and, um, yeah, just have this beautiful yarn with you and, um, always love to your Chelsea and, oh, you too.
Chelsea Wilson: You too, Emma. Thank you so much.
Emma Donovan: Yeah. And your family. Merry Christmas too, you know, while we're not too far, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Big love for the end of the year.
Chelsea Wilson: Oh, thanks, love. We're going to finish up by playing the new single. Black Nation. Do you want to [00:37:00] tell us a little bit about it?
Emma Donovan: Yes, yes, um, Black Nation is, um, is a tune.
I'm going to actually sing this for the, for the, um, the Blacktivism gig. It's a, it's a part of the repertoire there for the first of, um, December. Um, we're going to rehearse it this week. But Black Nation is, is about that fire that we have. Um, in these young fellas, you know, the younger generation that's come through.
And, um, you know, there's a couple of lines there about backburning, you know, and how, um, that cultural way of backburning country, you know, we get that new regrowth, you know, that, you know, and, and in, in this song, it's, um, it's the, um, it's these young fellas, but also my favorite line in this song is, um, if you're a friend to me, I'll call you my brother.
You know, and that's about our, um, you know, our connection to other mob outside our community, you know, always, um, inclusive, you know, and it doesn't matter what colour, you know, um, if you're a friend to me, yeah, I [00:38:00] call you my brother, so.
Chelsea Wilson: Beautiful. Let's have a listen. This is Black Nation, Emma Donovan.
